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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Saranel Binyon 
January 28, 1998 
Cassette 2, Side 2 
 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:00 
[Recording starts mid-sentence]-- and enjoyed being with him?  
 
Saranel Binyon  00:02 
Yeah.  
 
Katherin Hervey  00:02 
In some respects. 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:03 
Yeah, yeah in some respects, sure, but I think that we do have to pay back when we've done an 
injustice to someone intentionally. I'm not talking about unintentional, but if we intentionally do 
something ugly, I think we have to pay for it, either in this life or another life. So, that's the law 
of karma. I also think that we get rewarded for good things, either in this life or next life, next 
lives. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:34 
Do you think that they ever end, that life's ever ends? 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:36 
No, no, I don't. I think that we go to different levels, like school, or dimensions, like we're in the 
third dimension now, and our goal and aim is going to, is to go into the fourth dimension, which 
is, our bodies will be-- Our vibrations will be higher, so we'll be lighter, we'll be more light 
being, rather than the way we are now. And what I've seen is that we'll be quite a bit taller and 
thinner, which I'm voting for, and we will all be vegetarian. And because our essence, our 
vibration, will be so fast, we won't live like we do today. It'll be a different type of life, and yet 
the people will be basically the same. We'll still have the mothers and daddies and all that kind of 
stuff. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:25 
Are there people now who are there, in that? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:36 
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Yes, they're called angels. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:38 
So, someone like the Dalai Lama, or something? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:41 
Right now, the Dalai Lama is in body, in a third dimensional body. But it's my understanding 
that he can easily leave this body and go into fourth dimension. People can do that-- 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:54 
Through meditation or? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:55 
Mm-hmm, or intent, whatever.  
 
Katherin Hervey  01:57 
And you can do that? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:59 
No, I cannot do that, unfortunately. Or fortunately, because I don't know that, that we would 
come back, if it's a [?real nice?] place. I think that a lot of the religious things call it heaven, 
that's not what it is. That's kind of your idea of it. 
 
Katherin Hervey  02:15 
You think a lot of people don't come back unless, like, they're, they're, they still have their 
calling here, that they haven't finished? 
 
Saranel Binyon  02:24 
I don't understand your question.  
 
Katherin Hervey  02:26 
Well, it would just seem like if, if you were to reach that connection, and it was this, you know, 
very nice, wonderful place, it'd be hard to come back unless you know you weren't done here.  
 
Saranel Binyon  02:38 
I don't think you ever go into that dimension until you're ready to go into it. So, it's like going 
into a school grade, you know, we don't go to the fourth grade, until you finish the third grade, 
and we're still in the third grade-- [?Not really in the third grade?]. Plus, we have our remedials, 
probably stick around on third, third dimension. All it is is vibration. And if you look at a ceiling 
fan and it's off, that's third dimension. When you turn it on, when you can't see the blade, that's 
fourth dimension. 
 
Katherin Hervey  03:20 
So, is that reincarnation? 
 
Saranel Binyon  03:21 
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I think it's a form of it. I think that we go through many, many lifetimes in a particular dimension 
to learn how to manage the vibration of that dimension and to learn the lessons of that 
dimension. And it's my hallucination that each dimension has its own set of lessons going on, 
here we're learning not to judge [laughs], how to love one another, which is another big laugh, 
things like that. And in the fourth dimension, I don't know what the lessons are, but I'm sure 
they're there.  
 
Katherin Hervey  03:54 
Why do you say that's a big laugh?  
 
Saranel Binyon  03:56 
Well, do you see us loving one another?  
 
Katherin Hervey  03:58 
No. 
 
Saranel Binyon  03:59 
Do you see us not judging one another?  
 
Katherin Hervey  04:04 
No. 
 
Saranel Binyon  04:04 
Well, okay, have we learned it? No, some of us, maybe are better than others at it, but got a long 
way. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:18 
Well, it's interesting too, because we keep populating. Think that's part of the problem? 
 
Saranel Binyon  04:24 
I think that, I think that your question has two prongs to it. I think you're asking me, where are all 
those other souls coming from, and are we ruining our world with people, too many people? Is 
that what you're asking? Was that?  
 
Katherin Hervey  04:40 
I think so.  
 
Saranel Binyon  04:40 
Okay, all right, we are populating because we're not paying attention, and we're hoping that by 
continuing to do it, maybe we'll get it right. As far as the number of souls that are here, we don't 
know that this time that we're in is the first Earth incarnation. I mean, maybe we're on a planet 
that's gone through millions and millions of cycles. When they say, well, they only made so 
many souls. How do we know? You know, there could have been a trillion billion before the 
Earth cooled this last time, I don't know where all these souls are coming from, and I don't know 
where they're going, I just know that there's a place, somewhere for all of them. It's not to say a 
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place for the bodies on this earth, not saying that. I think we need to quit making babies or more 
of us need to die. 
 
Katherin Hervey  05:50 
So, your doctoral program, the intuitive diagnosis. Can you explain that? What it is, and? 
 
Saranel Binyon  05:57 
I haven't started it, so no, I really can't explain it. But what it is, is intuitive medicine. And again, 
it's taking the idea that if you can see or perceive, which is a cross between seeing and feeling 
and hearing, you can perceive someone's vibration and notice when the vibration isn't constant, 
we can be taught to decide what the inconsistency represents. Is it disease? Is it emotional? 
Whatever. And what I want to do is to study with someone that can see better than I can, that 
perceives better, and [?Caroline Myss?] does, and that's why I want to do this. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:41 
So, how do they teach you? 
 
Saranel Binyon  06:43 
I haven't been through the program, I don't know. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:48 
Where's the program at? 
 
Saranel Binyon  06:49 
A lot of it's self study. And then you go, I think to Pennsylvania, I'm not sure, [?to study for a 
while?]. I hope to Hawaii, that'd be even better. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:52 
So, you get to put the D-R-period in front of your name?  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:04 
Yeah, big whoop.  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:05 
Well, but people like it. 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:10 
Yeah, people like it, that's another thing. It's so very sad, oh, we won't bash. But it's so silly to 
have to have letters before and after names, to mean that you're smart.  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:25 
I spoke to this midwife once, and she said that whenever they would end up at the hospital, or 
sometimes they would have births at the hospital, that they learned to just put a name tag on, 
because then the nurses take you seriously, the doctors take you seriously. Otherwise, you're a 
midwife, and it's, I don't know if they had doctor in front of their name or anything, but just a 
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little badge, just a little badge there that it was all of a sudden, people were listening. Go, get this, 
they got it, you know.  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:49 
Well, this is for insurance companies. In order to bill, I need a PhD. Yeah like, that's gonna make 
me worth more but okay, fine. And besides that, it would be neat to, if I ever decide to get 
married again to have to make my ex husband, or my husband call me Doctor, whatever. Mister 
and Doctor whatever. 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:17 
So, can you explain your hypnotherapy a little bit, like that whole process? 
 
Saranel Binyon  08:24 
The process of hypnotherapy? What specifically do you mean? 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:30 
Just, I guess, how you do it and situations that you've used it in, and what, what you've gotten out 
of it, or what you've done?  
 
Saranel Binyon  08:38 
So, you're asking how it works?  
 
Katherin Hervey  08:39 
Yeah. 
 
Saranel Binyon  08:39 
Yeah, okay, all right. Hypnosis works by redirecting the conscious mind, either into another area 
or to some, to no place, and letting the subconscious mind come forward and take control. That's 
done by, again, redirecting the conscious mind. Some people do it by counting, some people do it 
by music, and some people can do it by voice tone. And to put someone into the idea of a trance, 
you have to realize that hypnosis, all hypnosis, is self hypnosis. No person can do to another 
person what that person doesn't want to be done. For instance, if I wanted to make them bark like 
a dog, unless you really wanted to, there's no way I could do it regardless of-- 
 
Katherin Hervey  09:27 
That's good to know. 
 
Saranel Binyon  09:31 
Isn't that good to know? And remember that if you ever go to a new stage show and you see 
those people up on stage acting like idiots, they gave their permission or they wouldn't do it. I 
mean, when you raise your hand, oh, please pick me, you know, what are they saying? You 
know, let me be an act, so fine, let them. Anyway, as the person is giving the permission, then 
the conscious mind just kind of shuts up and the subconscious mind gets to come forward. In the 
beginning, when hypnosis really started being used with, back in Atlanta, the Atlantean period, 
which was several 1000 years after Lemuria, and the Atlanteans used it for mental telepathy and 
to stay in touch with each other. In a state of hypnosis, your subconscious mind totally controls 
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everything, and everything works properly. It's the conscious mind, the criticizer, the judge, the 
heckler in each of us that really kind of messes us up. So, as we learned to use hypnosis, many, 
many of the religions would use hypnosis as a means of control, because if a person lets you, you 
can totally control them by using hypnosis, and that means they want you to do it, or they 
wouldn't do it, regardless of what they say. So, the religious orders began to use it, and it kind of 
got a bad rap, like people would allow themselves to be, you know, totally manipulated. So 
hypnosis, a lot of times, scares people. Today, the most beautiful and effective form of hypnosis 
is commercials, the commercials that we see on television, people go into this weird trance and 
then go buy these weird things and stuff that stuff in their mouth that if they were conscious, they 
really wouldn't do. And they'll do it, it's like a post hypnotic suggestion, gotta have those Doritos. 
I mean, have you ever looked at what a Dorito's made out of? Why would you do that? People do 
it. On the other hand, hypnosis can be used to teach people to heal themselves, if you can get the 
conscious mind to, number one, shut up, and number two, go away quietly. The subconscious 
mind knows how to heal the body. That's why, when you have a cut on your hand and it begins 
to heal, it's not because the conscious mind is saying heal, heal, heal, the subconscious mind 
knows what to do, and so we leave it alone, and we know that it's going to happen. What if we 
begin to use hypnosis, self hypnosis, put that in, to heal all parts of our body? What if we knew 
that we could heal cancer? It's really no different than a cut in the hand. We just don't think we 
can do it, therefore we can't. And hypnosis shows you the possibility. 
 
Katherin Hervey  12:42 
So, is that what you would do with people? Is that, like, why people would come to you? Or 
would there be a variety of-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  12:48 
Variety of reasons. To stop smoking was the big one, I got to assist many, many childbirths with 
hypnosis for no pain, and that was cool, lot of headaches, a lot of past life regression, which was 
interesting, because the soul remembers everything, and just basic stuff. What I found, because 
the Western mind is so analytical, I needed a vehicle to let people know that they could indeed 
get to a certain state. Because no one really, in the beginning, believes that he or she could be 
hypnotized. You know, they think it takes somebody that's really stupid. Well, it's quite the 
contrary, the smarter the person is, the easier it is for them to allow themselves to be hypnotized. 
And of course, the element of trust comes in too. So as I was looking for a way to reach 
alcoholics and children with attention deficit, people like that that had a hard time paying 
attention, we came across neurofeedback, which is actually hypnosis using a computer. So it 
works really well. 
 
Katherin Hervey  13:59 
Do you think it works better because people-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:04 
They trust the computer more than they trust themselves. They trust that the computer will show 
them how to feel, where to go, in their head more than they do.  
 
Katherin Hervey  14:15 
Because it would seem like people would think that maybe they can't trust themselves enough-- 
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Saranel Binyon  14:20 
Oh no, they can't do it, they can't do it. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:20 
--or they can't let go enough to, you know, to kind of give themselves up for that. 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:27 
Well, people are so suspicious of themselves, of their own intent and of others intent, that it is 
hard for them, you know. And they don't believe they can heal themselves. People are not 
brought up to believe that they have any power at all. And the thing about hypnosis, and 
neurofeedback, that I like, is that it's restoring the soul to its significant power. I think that's 
really cool. That's why, I bet, you want to become a writer, and with the movies, you can show 
them how wonderful they are. Because they don't know it. Isn't it amazing that they don't, or how 
cute and funny they are, people don't know it. I don't know what they think, but okay. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:09 
Too much coming in, I think.  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:11 
I guess, I don't know, or not enough going out, just amazes me. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:27 
You mentioned that you were influenced by religious books that taught you about dimensions in 
outer space last time. Can you explain that? 
 
Saranel Binyon  15:40 
Well, when you read some of the ancient religions, for instance, if you read the Bible carefully, 
there will be passages in there that they talk about the fiery chariot and the angel that came down 
out of the sky, and all that kind of stuff, which, as a child, I thought was pretty cool, but I never 
did really understand it. I mean, why don't we get to see that stuff today? I was upset. And as I 
began to read the Indian religions, from India, and they would talk about the Vedic [?faith?] and 
the fiery chariot that came down from the sky and the war planes in the sky, I became very 
disappointed because we didn't get to see that. So, as you read and you pick up all these 
[?imprint disciplines?], all the literature that hasn't been really washed by the major religions that 
are trying to control us, you begin to realize that there's much more there that would, than we 
know. And as a child, it would, I seemed to understand that we were not alone, that there were 
other entities. I mean, you know, when you see auras, almost anything can be possible to your 
mind. And then when I was two, I had an experience, and I guess we could call it religious or 
spiritual, or whatever. But one morning, real early, I heard a choir in my [?little house?]. 
Obviously, there wasn't a choir there, and I went into the kitchen and sat down on the floor, and 
all the walls fell away, and I got to see all these people that, in my little eyes, looked like angels, 
but they were really big, really tall, and they were talking and showing me things. Now, I still 
don't remember what all the things were that like holding a world, a globe, holding a baby, this, 
that and the other, and I can still remember how the floor felt. It was cold on my little bare butt. I 
was [inaudible], and it was all, it seemed to go on for hours and hours, and I got tired, so I told 
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them all goodnight and went back to bed. And I woke up the next morning and told my mother 
and my grandmother, you know, oh, I got to see the fiery chariots and all the stuff that, you 
know, were coming in my life. They just kind of looked at me and laughed.  
 
Katherin Hervey  15:40 
Oh, they did? 
 
Saranel Binyon  15:40 
Yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:40 
Even your grandmother? 
 
Saranel Binyon  15:40 
She said, "You really had an experience. Let's remember it." And so many times she would have 
me describe it so I wouldn't forget it. So later, when I read this, the stuff, you know, about the 
fiery chariots and angels in the sky, I sort of knew what they were talking about, and began to 
suspect that maybe somebody was trying to keep something from us for a reason.  
 
Katherin Hervey  18:41 
What do you mean by that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  18:44 
Well, I think that that there are other civilizations all over and I think that we have fallen asleep 
to that fact, and our religions in order to control us, to make us better workers, have let us stay 
asleep. I think there are people that know a lot more. If you're really interested, you can pick up 
The Earth Chronicles, by Zecharia Sitchin, and read about creation. And read any of our myths, 
and you'll see the under, the undercurrent of number one, we're not alone, we're magnificent 
creatures. And number two, and we are controlled. And that appears again and again, and that's 
been a thing that I've watched with interest throughout my life. Does that answer your question? 
 
Katherin Hervey  19:32 
Kind of. So, who's, who's controlling, who or what? 
 
Saranel Binyon  19:43 
I think that the people that want to be in power, and we could call them, for lack of a better word, 
the dark forces, and I don't mean the devil, because I don't know about that yet. I think that 
there's always a battle between light and dark, you know, day and night, good and evil and all 
that. I think that as children of God, we are basically good, and yet we have free will so we can 
choose to be not good. And it's the not good, because of its horrific nature, that does try to 
control everybody else. That's what not good is, is to control other people. If you have a 
definition of evil, it's trying to control everybody around you. So that is not nice, so.  
 
Katherin Hervey  20:30 
Do you think these dark forces are working towards, working through living beings?  
 
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Saranel Binyon  20:38 
Yeah.  
 
Katherin Hervey  20:38 
Like Newt Gingrich?  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:41 
I don't think, I don't think he's evil. I think he's really, really smart, and he really reads what he 
says, understand [inaudible]. But he really, he's for the free internet, free access. He doesn't want 
the government in that at all. A lot of his views are so radical that people aren't listening. But I 
think anybody in politics today is almost tainted with a dark force. How could you do the stuff 
they do and not do?  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:14 
Is there anyone that stands out in your mind that, that you think is truly evil?  
 
Saranel Binyon  21:19 
I thought Nixon was just awful. I thought he was the worst for-- Of course, Hitler is always my 
favorite. Anybody that destroys our forests, that subjugates women and children, that votes to 
keep us cold and hungry and dark, yeah, all those people. So, as far as naming names--  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:42 
That's a lot of people, though. 
 
Saranel Binyon  21:45 
I know. To me, it's really a struggle going on the face of our Earth for the survival of the planet. 
And if women don't wake up and win it, it's overall gonna go back to mud, mud creatures. 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:12 
Well, you said that last time, too. You said that women are finally waking up and becoming 
citizens and-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  22:20 
I just hope it's not too late.  
 
Katherin Hervey  22:21 
Well, how do you, how do you think that's happened, that they've woken up? Or do you think 
maybe that they've always been awake, but that now they're just being heard, now that there's--  
 
Saranel Binyon  22:21 
No, I don't think they've always been awake. I think there has been, there has been pockets of 
awareness. You know, all the time, witches, for instance, throughout history, are very aware, 
very awake. Women can be scared enough to forget, to not be aware. And I think that it, with the 
idea that we don't need strong men to till our fields, or whatever, that we are allowing ourselves 
to wake up. Because if all you have on your mind is your survival and the survival of your 
children, you're going to do what it takes to survive. And we've survived several millennia. Now 
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it's better than that, so we can wake up, except in third world countries, and they're still 
surviving. You know, it's up to us to expand that awareness, to get them out of that little trap. 
And then you got that Islamic nation and how they treat their women.  
 
Katherin Hervey  23:40 
Where do you think rape fits into that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  23:41 
Again, it's power, power and control. If you can't control somebody any other way, you know, 
beat them to death. That is as rude as you can get and rape it's an accession of that. 
 
Katherin Hervey  24:00 
So, what happened at 40 when you decided to just say, you said this last time, you said, "To hell 
with them, I'm just going to do what I want." 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:10 
I was sitting on my bed and I was reading a poem that said, “When I grow old, I want to wear 
purple and red and go barefooted if I want to.” And I thought, you know, I don't have anything 
else to prove, I have two children who are nice, I know who I am, I'm tired of living in someone 
else's shadow, you know, my husband's shadow, and putting up with a type of disrespect from 
him that I didn't feel like I deserved. So, I began to change rapidly. 
 
Katherin Hervey  24:51 
So what, what did you do to change? 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:54 
Well, he used to come in and, drunk, with, you know, start a fight, and I would either get up and 
go to the other room and ignore him, or, you know, placate him or whatever. And that particular 
day, he picked a bad day to do this. He came home that night, and I had a cat named Annie, it's a 
Siamese cat, she always hated him because he'd pick at her and tease her and make her cry and 
meow. She would hiss and fizz when he would start upstairs, she just hated him, and he wasn't a 
cruel man, except to get to me, he would pick an animal. And so this night, he was particularly 
drunk, particularly drunk, particularly mean, and he picked her up and he said, "I'm just gonna 
throw this mean, mean cat up against the wall and splatter her guts." Well, I had always slept 
with a loaded pistol, 38, under my bed. I mean, I guess being in Texas, I don't know, so I pulled 
out the gun and put it in my lap, and I said, "Tell you what, you just do that," and looked at him, 
and he saw me for the first time, and he knew that if he touched that cat, and I would have, 
without a doubt, I would have shot him. Now, then the next day, I thought, now, wouldn't, 
wouldn't the papers look lovely. Woman shoots man over cat. But at that moment, I think I 
declared to him, you know, you better leave me alone now. And after that, it went kind of 
downhill, and the real, and the marriage was ruined anyway. Two years later, I had been taking 
karate again because he could get pretty belligerent, and I decided that I wasn't going to put up 
with that either. Couldn't very well shoot him, because he made a lot of money, and I needed the 
money. He didn't want me to take karate. I had been, hadn't been raped, but I had been molested 
and didn't know what to do, and it scared me. So, I thought, you know, that and his belligerence, 
both, I had better learn how to take care of myself. So, I'd taken karate. Was pretty good at it. 
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And he came home again one night, drunk, and grabbed me from behind and said, "Well, now 
with your karate, what are you going to do?" So, it just so happened, the day before, I learned to 
flip people on the floor. So, I flipped him on his back, and he was standing with his head at my 
feet, flat on his back. I said, "That's what I'm going to do, every time." And I knew then, the 
marriage was over. It was lovely. It was glorious, as they say. Quite a powerful feeling when you 
finally learn that you don't get to let people treat you ugly. It's a shame it took physical power.  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:33 
Well.  
 
Saranel Binyon  27:36 
But it did. 
 
Katherin Hervey  27:37 
But it seems necessary, because before you were saying that that's what kept, you know, kind of, 
men in power was, you know, they're bigger, they're stronger. 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:46 
If nothing else, they'll beat us and hurt us and it hurts, but not that bad. When I work with 
battered women, you know, I know, I know how they feel. I was emotionally battered, not 
physically battered, because I really am a good shot, and he knows that, but, mentally. And so 
the deal is to not ever let that [inaudible]. Always keep your gun under your bed, [inaudible]. 
 
Katherin Hervey  28:18 
You Texas girl. So, you think it's kind of that same plateau between abusive and emotional 
abuse. 
 
Saranel Binyon  28:28 
What do you mean, the same plateau? 
 
Katherin Hervey  28:30 
Between, you said that when you're working with battered women that you know how they feel 
because--  
 
Saranel Binyon  28:34 
Yeah, because I was emotionally--  
 
Katherin Hervey  28:35 
Verbally and emotionally. 
 
Saranel Binyon  28:37 
--Yeah, and I know how that feels. And the thing that, I always drew the line because I could 
shoot, you know, he never hit me, because I would have shot him. And he knew this, but he 
knew right where to go. He could get right up to that line. And, like I said, almost crossed the 
line with the cat. No, I will kill him over that cat, and would have gladly done it.  
 
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Katherin Hervey  28:59 
How did you learn how to shoot? 
 
Saranel Binyon  29:02 
All Texas girls know how to shoot, don't they? Don't you know how to?  
 
Katherin Hervey  29:05 
Mm-mm. My mom does. 
 
Saranel Binyon  29:07 
[?Well I knew that, she should shoot?] [inaudible]. And besides that, it's fun. 
 
Katherin Hervey  29:14 
Really? I remember trying and I didn't like it.  
 
Saranel Binyon  29:21 
Is it the noise? 
 
Katherin Hervey  29:22 
I didn't like it at all. 
 
Saranel Binyon  29:23 
I learned with a shotgun, and I wasn't as good with a shotgun as I am with a pistol.  
 
Katherin Hervey  29:29 
It was, I remember it was a shotgun-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  29:31 
Yeah, it hurts your shoulder. And I think that, and I guess a man taught you. I always thought, 
and this is kind of what I thought, that they try to hurt you so you won't do it. I don't think it's a 
conscious thought but-- 
 
Katherin Hervey  29:46 
It was either my dad or Uncle Jim.  
 
Saranel Binyon  29:47 
Yeah.  
 
Katherin Hervey  29:49 
Uncle Jim. 
 
Saranel Binyon  29:50 
Yeah, "Gonna teach you how to shoot. Let's scare that little girl so she won't give us no trouble." 
Yeah. Well, I thought, okay, if I can't use that, I will use a pistol. Oh, but again, if the matriarchal 
society existed, we wouldn't even have weapons.  
 
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Katherin Hervey  30:06 
Okay, when did you realize that that you were a woman within this society, and what did that 
mean for you? Does that make sense?  
 
Saranel Binyon  30:36 
Mm-hmm, I think before I came into this incarnation, it was my choice to be a woman, to 
experience the new order, to experience the awakening that we're undergoing now. I think I 
missed it by 10 years. I should have waited 10 years to come in, because seems like [?there's still 
a lot of work?], it meant that I wasn't gonna have the good-- [recording ends]. 
 